Vane removal on 604E

**magnarc** · May 3rd, 2009, 08:52 AM

Saw these on feepay.

What effect would removing the vanes on the HF horn have? Is this the cheap Mantaray!!??

ALTEC LANSING 604E 604 E DUPLEX SPEAKER WORKS #2 - eBay, Speakers, Vintage Electronics, Electronics. (end time 05-May-09 12:51:25 AEST)

ALTEC LANSING 604E 604 E SUPER DUPLEX SPEAKER WORKS #1 - eBay, Speakers, Vintage Electronics, Electronics. (end time 05-May-09 12:52:34 AEST)

**Horn Savant** · May 4th, 2009, 11:15 AM

[QUOTE=magnarc;1775386]Saw these on feepay.

Is this the cheap Mantaray!!??

[QUOTE]

No, but it turns the 604-E into a much cheaper classic

**Todd W. White** · May 4th, 2009, 12:08 PM

My friend, the late Dr. Paul S. Veneklasen, was at Altec when Alexis Badmaieff designed the horn for the 604C (which was used through the G-series).

His exact words to me in a letter about it were, "It was STUPID!" He had told them it the horn was too small, that it would be beamy, etc., but Badmaieff, who was Head of Acoustics at the time, wouldn't allow his design to be challenged, so it stayed as it was.

The "B" horn was much better sounding, but, of course, it was larger.

The current 604-8H-III being made by Great Plains Audio has a new horn that is, for want of a better description, and combination of the best of the "B" and the UREI horns. It really works well!

**Steve Mac** · May 4th, 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Todd W. White

...and combination of the best of the "B" and the UREI horns. It really works well!

Todd....question: Why doesn't the "III" version offer the foam edging?

**Todd W. White** · May 4th, 2009, 07:01 PM

According to Bill and Steve, who does the TEF measurements, it doesn't need it, seeing as how that was put there to correct a problem with the UREI horn, and this isn't the UREI horn, although it is similar (but better!)...

**klausesser** · May 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Todd W. White

My friend, the late Dr. Paul S. Veneklasen, was at Altec when Alexis Badmaieff designed the horn for the 604C (which was used through the G-series).

His exact words to me in a letter about it were, "It was STUPID!" He had told them it the horn was too small, that it would be beamy, etc., but Badmaieff, who was Head of Acoustics at the time, wouldn't allow his design to be challenged, so it stayed as it was.

The "B" horn was much better sounding, but, of course, it was larger.

The current 604-8H-III being made by Great Plains Audio has a new horn that is, for want of a better description, and combination of the best of the "B" and the UREI horns. It really works well!

Hi Todd!

Maybe the 604E cell-horn is more beamy . . but: it sounds great! I never heard a "B" type, but i heard the Mantaray CD Horn in the GPA 604. More even dispersion, great stage. But "better" sounding or staging than a well positioned (!) 604E? Don?t know - a direct A/B blindfolded comparison would be vital.
When i went home to listen to my 604E?s highs after listening to the 604 with Mantaray i didn?t miss a thing.
I prefer "beamy" speakers - the classical monitoring construction - also at home.

Besides: i ever was and still am very (!) surprised about the clean and "slim" sound of the 15" cone of the 604 type. The reason to get rid of my 12" and 15" Tannoys (Monitor Gold) years ago was their sounding of the lower mids which makes them a bit "fat" and "boxy" - no matter what we tried to handle that acoustically: it wouldn?t go away. Of course you can eq it . . but i didn?t want that. In my eyes a good speaker is the one that needs no eq to sound natural.

WHAT a difference to the 604E - with it?s "open" mids and highs. I love it. No speaker to mix or master with - i have an active Manger-System for that - but just very fine, very relaxed and very natural reproduced music for beautyful evenings.

Even a Haydn "London" Trio No.4 is great with them (Rostropovich/Stern/Rampal) - as is Keith Richard?s "Words of Wonder" . . . . :-))

best, Klaus

**Todd W. White** · May 5th, 2009, 12:49 PM

Hi Klaus!

Love the "E", but I've done A/B comparisons of a freshly rebuilt by GPA 604E in a SHV enclosure next to a new GPA 604-8H-II with the MR horn, and there is a difference.

To be fair, the 604E sounds GREAT! It's only when you A/B it with the II (and probably the III) that you notice the difference - the mid/hf response is less "forced", more transparent. It's almost like the newer one has to work less to get the sound to you, and, thus, it sounds less strained.

That said, I'd NEVER throw out a good set of 604E's just because of this difference - they ARE, indeed, EXCELLENT!

**klausesser** · May 5th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Todd W. White

It's only when you A/B it with the II (and probably the III) that you notice the difference - the mid/hf response is less "forced", more transparent. It's almost like the newer one has to work less to get the sound to you, and, thus, it sounds less strained.

Hi Todd!

Yes - i guess here the Mataray?s more even dispersion leads to more transparency. The tangerine phase-plug surely does the rest . . ;-)
As i learned the 604E series intentionally was developed for mono-use, right?

best, Klaus

**Todd W. White** · May 5th, 2009, 04:12 PM

Never heard that - I'd be surprised if that were true, as Stereophonic recording and playback were well integrated into home and studio use by then. Even by the time the 604C came along, Stereo was rapidly replacing mono.

**klausesser** · May 5th, 2009, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Todd W. White

Never heard that - I'd be surprised if that were true, as Stereophonic recording and playback were well integrated into home and studio use by then. Even by the time the 604C came along, Stereo was rapidly replacing mono.

maybe the first 604 was meant - i mean it was somebody here who mentioned it.

best, Klaus